1 CITY OF JACKSONVILLE
2 LAND USE AND ZONING
3 COMMITTEE
4
5
6 Proceedings held on Tuesday, December 4,
7 2007, commencing at 5:05 p.m., City Hall, Council
8 Chambers, 1st Floor,
9 Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State
10 of
11
12 PRESENT:
13 MICHAEL CORRIGAN, Chair.
CLAY YARBOROUGH, Vice Chair.
14 RICHARD CLARK, Committee Member.
MIA JONES, Committee Member.
15 E. DENISE LEE, Committee Member.
ART SHAD, Committee Member.
16 JACK WEBB, Committee Member.
17
ALSO PRESENT:
18
RAY HOLT, City Council Member.
19 GLORIOUS JOHNSON, City Council Member.
JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.
20 SEAN KELLY, Planning and Development Dept.
FOLKS HUXFORD, Planning and Development Dept.
21 DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.
22 JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.
MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
23
- - -
24
25
Diane M.
Tropia,
2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 December 4, 2007 5:05 p.m.
3 - - -
4 THE CHAIRMAN: The time is about five
5 minutes after 5:00. We'll go ahead and call the
6 December 4th, 2007, meeting of the Land Use and
7 Zoning Committee to order.
8 I am Councilman Clay Yarborough. I'm the
9 vice chair. Councilman Corrigan will be here
10 shortly. He's at another function he's on his
11 way from.
12 In attendance we have Councilman Ray Holt,
13 who's joined us this afternoon, and then
14 Councilman Shad, Councilwoman Jones, Councilman
15 Clark, and Councilman Webb who are part of the
16 LUZ Committee, and then also Councilwoman
17 Glorious Johnson is with us for a little while
18 tonight too.
19 It's usually customary for us to take
20 visiting council members' items up first.
21 First we have on page 15, item number 51,
22 Councilwoman Johnson.
23 If we will turn to page 15, members,
24 item 51, 2007-1214.
25 And I will just remind members of the
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 public, if you wish to speak on any item, please
2 be sure to fill out a blue card that you see up
3 there next to the podium and put that in, and
4 we'll call you up at the appropriate time for
5 the bill that you're here to speak on.
6 2007-1214, we will open the public
7 hearing.
8 Do I have any speaker cards?
9 Okay. Seeing none, is there anybody in the
10 audience who wishes to speak on this bill?
11 AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We'll close that
13 public hearing and I will entertain a motion.
14 MR. SHAD: Move the bill.
15 MR. CLARK: Second.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: There's a motion and a
17 second.
18 Discussion.
19 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Johnson.
21 MS. JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Vice-Chairman.
22 This church, which is near
23 and I'll make it very short -- is about two
24 blocks from my home. This church has been in
25 the community ever since I was born, so we won't
Diane M.
Tropia,
4
1 discuss my age. And now our pastor, Kim
2 Daniels, has taken over this church, refurbished
3 it, and she would like to keep it in that venue
4 for the neighborhood.
5 A lot of the members in our neighborhood
6 attend that church, and she wanted it to have
7 the significance that it should have, and that's
8 to be a landmark, and make sure that, you know,
9 she's following the procedures to keep it the
10 way it was in the early years. Let's say over
11 60-plus years ago. I'm just saying it because
12 now you can guess my age.
13 So I'd appreciate if you would support this
14 bill so that we can probably also get funds to
15 help renovate it and keep it in the beautiful --
16 I wish someone would go by it. It's in the
17 neighborhood, but then it's a beautiful church
18 and I want to keep it there and this will help.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. All right. Any
20 further discussion on -1214?
21 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Open. Seeing none, open the
23 ballot.
24 (Committee ballot opened.)
25 MR. CLARK: (Votes yea.)
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 MS. JONES: (Votes yea.)
2 MR. SHAD: (Votes yea.)
3 MR. WEBB: (Votes yea.)
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: (Votes yea.)
5 (Committee ballot closed.)
6 MS. LAHMEUR: Five yeas, zero nays.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: By your action, you've
8 approved item 51, 2007-1214.
9 MS. JOHNSON: Thank you very much. And you
10 all have a good evening.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilman Webb, did you --
12 MR. WEBB: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Vice
13 Chair, excuse me. Acting Chair.
14 Item number 31, we were going to open the
15 public hearing and continue it on 1/15/08. I
16 think there were some people here who were just
17 waiting for us to hear the magic words that we
18 were, in fact, continuing that to 1/15/08. So
19 I --
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Item 31 is that?
21 MR. WEBB: Item number 31.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We'll do that right
23 quick.
24 MR. WEBB: Thank you.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Item 31 is on
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 page 10.
2 Thank you, Councilman Webb.
3 2007-1083, we will open that public
4 hearing. And I will note that that public
5 hearing -- there are no speakers. That public
6 hearing will be continued until January 15th of
7 2008 if anyone is here or interested in that
8 bill.
9 Thank you, Mr. Webb.
10 Okay. We also have Councilman Holt. Am I
11 correct, we're here -- you'd like us to take up
12 2007-919, Mr. Holt?
13 MR. HOLT: (Inaudible.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. That's the one you're
15 here for, which is on page -- that is in the
16 middle of page 7, 2007-919, members. And we
17 will open that public hearing.
18 And first we have -- were we going to do --
19 if I can ask Ms. Eller, are we going to --
20 Ms. Eller, for -919, were we going to
21 procedurally do this a little bit different?
22 MS. ELLER: Yes, sir.
23 This is an informal quasi-judicial public
24 hearing on an appeal, and typically we grant
25 each side the same amount of time. In this
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 case, the sides, if you will, are the applicant
2 Mr. Mann, and then the Planning Department.
3 So we began last time with about 15 minutes
4 for each side with some time reserved for
5 rebuttal, and I believe that's what was
6 discussed at agenda.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. And then for those
8 who are here to speak with the blue cards, how
9 will we go about that?
10 MS. ELLER: About three minutes each. And
11 if you could just keep tabs on how much time has
12 been spent on either support or opposition, and
13 that way each side gets generally an equal
14 amount of time as the minimum requirement.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So we'll ask
16 Legislative Services to keep an eye on the time
17 for us, and we'll start out with Mr. Mann for
18 about 15 minutes.
19 MS. ELLER: Correct. And he may want to
20 reserve a few minutes for rebuttal.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. All right. Mr. Mann.
22 (Mr. Mann approaches the podium.)
23 MR. MANN: Mr. Chairman, I do appreciate
24 any leeway you can give me. I do need to build
25 a record for this tonight.
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
2 MR. MANN: I'm Charles Mann, 165
3 Road, representing the Heekin and the Sleiman
4 family joint venture.
5 This is a site that is located off on
6
7 river side of
8 previously been approved for five duplex
9 buildings that are designed to look like large
10 riverfront homes. I've got a handout that will
11 give you an architectural rendering of what the
12 building will look like.
13 When we came before the board previously,
14 the engineering had not been completed on this.
15 And to get the architectural effect that we
16 want, we are seeking -- we filed a minor
17 modification.
18 The original PUD limited us to 35 feet. We
19 filed a minor modification for an additional
20 10 feet of height on these. It is solely for
21 the pitch of the roof. It is not going to
22 increase the square footage, the heated area of
23 the units. It's just so we can have more volume
24 ceilings and more pitch of roof to give the
25 architectural requirements or effects that are
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 called for in your Northside Vision Plan, which
2 calls for a low country type architecture.
3 Now, this is a plan that was approved with
4 citizen input. It was approved by the council,
5 approved by the LUZ Committee, approved by the
6 Planning Commission, and approved by the
7 Planning Department, and so we're meeting the
8 Northside Vision Plan.
9 This area is also designated in the
10 Northside Vision Plan as a mixed-use area for
11 more dense residential properties, more dense in
12 commercial uses combined.
13 What we're seeking -- and the only thing
14 that is before you tonight is an appeal of the
15 minor modification that was denied by the
16 Planning Commission. We're not discussing
17 height, we're not discussing increase in
18 density, we're not discussing coastal high
19 hazard area, we're not discussing water and
20 sewer. These issues should not be part of your
21 consideration.
22 You're here as judges, and you need to
23 listen to the competent and substantial evidence
24 that is going to be presented by myself and by
25 the opposition and in the Planning Department
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 report and decide who is right. That's your
2 requirement tonight, that's your request.
3 But let's talk about a brief history.
4 R-2006-1288 approved five buildings on this
5 site, ten units. We've passed out a handout
6 that shows -- we went to great extent to make
7 these buildings look like one large riverfront
8 home of two units each. We tried to take some
9 of the architectural features from the Broward
10 home, which is a historical site that is just
11 north of this, and incorporate the pitched roofs
12 into our architectural rendering.
13 We met with the civic club that is on
15 them, they took a non-stance. They did not
16 support it; they did not deny it. They just
17 took a non-position on it.
18 At a later meeting that we were not invited
19 to, they revoted it and came out with a
20 recommendation of denial. We made no agreement
21 with them that if they would support this, that
22 we would not come back and change it as we need
23 to do. There has been no agreement to that, so
24 we're not violating any type of agreement there.
25 The Planning Commission subsequently
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 approved this, the LUZ Committee of the City
2 Council approved this, and it was approved by
3 the full City Council.
4 But let's stop for just a minute and talk
5 about the things we know that are not going to
6 change. R-2006-1288(E) approved this site as a
7 PUD. It set certain design criteria, certain
8 setbacks, certain footprints. These footprints
9 are not going to change.
10 I'd like to hand out a copy of the
11 footprints that were handed out in the original
12 application. The view corridors between the
13 properties are not going to change. An increase
14 in height does not change that.
15 We're not increasing the heating area in
16 these units; we're not increasing the floor
17 space; we're not increasing the heated and
18 cooled air; we're not adding additional land to
19 this site. That's not going to change. That's
20 going to be as it was originally approved.
21 We're not affecting concurrency. There was
22 a CCAS issued for this site, 38461. There's no
23 fair share agreement. So we met the criteria
24 for concurrency on this site for our ten units.
25 We're in compliance with the Northside Vision
Diane M.
Tropia,
12
1 Plan. We've been through that before you before
2 on these various meetings. Again, it calls for
3 low country architecture, which is dormers, very
4 pitched roofs, very steep roofs, and we're
5 trying to comply with that. We're not
6 increasing any land of the project.
7 The Planning Department tells you in the
8 report that we're in the coastal high hazard
9 area. At the original zoning hearing for the
10 approval of the PUD, we had an expert witness
11 there and a topographical map and submitted that
12 as competent evidence, and it was accepted by
13 the LUZ Committee and by council that this was
14 competent evidence that we were out of the
15 coastal high hazard area.
16 But when you go to the Planning Department
17 report, they base their denial on the fact that
18 it's increasing density in the coastal high
19 hazard area.
20 They tell you that we're not on water and
21 sewer. Now, they've got that correct. We're
22 not on water and sewer. There's no water and
23 sewer on
24 -1288, was originally approved contingent upon
25 a State permit for a FAST system. That is a new
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 system for sewage disposal and a State permit
2 for a well. But that's not an issue before you
3 tonight. That is, again, a regulation of
4 density, and that's not the question. It has no
5 effect on height. And that's the only issue
6 that's before you.
7 They go on and tell you that we're in a
8 residential area, and I'd like to have a --
9 Mike, that handout on the zoning, have you
10 got it?
11 Could you put this on the overhead?
12 The Planning Department, in their staff
13 report, tells you that we're in a residential
14 area. What they failed to tell you is
15 contiguous to us, to the south, is a piece of
16 CCG-2 property that runs almost all the way down
17 to the ferry. Beginning 150 feet north of us is
18 another piece of CCG-2 property that runs for
19 several hundred yards to the north of us. And
20 directly across the street from our site is a
21 piece of property that is zoned CCG-2.
22 In your CCG-2 zoning category, you can
23 build to 60 feet by right. The property
24 contiguous to the south, immediately across the
25 street, can both have 60-foot buildings put on
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 them. They didn't tell you that. They told you
2 we're in a residential neighborhood.
3 They didn't go on and tell you that to the
4 north of us is a shipyard. They didn't tell you
5 that to the north of that is a 60-foot-tall
6 condominium building, and they didn't tell you
7 that there's a 60-foot-tall dry stack, which is
8 a boat storage, that is being built north of
9 that.
10 They didn't tell you that there's a
11 restaurant to the south of us, that there's a
12 commercial fishing project to the south of us,
13 that there's a retail surf shop to the north of
14 us. They didn't tell you that there's a
15 campground to the north of us.
16 They told you that we're in a residential
17 area. Does this sound like a residential area?
18 Yes, there are residences in this area. They're
19 across the street. But part of that property is
20 also zoned CCG-2 and you can build to 60 feet.
21 They go on to tell you that we're setting a
22 precedent by approving this. Well, we've
23 already discussed that we've got a 60-foot-tall
24 condo building being built out there immediately
25 to the north of us, that we've got a
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 60-foot-tall dry stack to the north of us, that
2 we've got a shipyard out there that has a very
3 tall building to the north of us.
4 But they didn't tell you that there's been
5 five approvals of height variances out there
6 from 35 feet to anywhere between 42 and
7 46 feet. We're not setting a precedent. The
8 precedent has already been set. And here's a
9 list of them if you'd like to see them.
10 In our previous hearing, we handed out
11 pictures of some of these homes and also the
12 bill numbers for where they were approved.
13 So these are things that we're not
14 discussing tonight. The only thing -- and they
15 all relate to density. The only thing that
16 we're really discussing tonight is a height
17 variance, going from 35 feet to 45 feet.
18 Now, on your Planning Commission, you have
19 some very -- people are very passionate about
20 neighborhoods, which is a good thing. And I
21 have a very good friend that serves on that, and
22 he and I chose to disagree on this.
23 His words were, "With that, I will make a
24 motion to deny MM-2007-07 and support the report
25 made by the Planning Department to deny this."
Diane M.
Tropia,
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1 And his basis for that, "adopt the reasons as
2 competent and substantial evidence as to why to
3 deny this." That was the only reason. The
4 Planning Department report was the only
5 substantial and competent evidence that was
6 noted in your Planning Commission report and the
7 grounds for denial of this.
8 So let's go to the Planning Department
9 staff's report for just a moment. There are
10 three criteria that the Planning Department
11 staff has used. It says, "Staff reviewed the
12 application for minor modification and for
13 compliance with the following criteria."
14 Item 2 we're in complete agreement with.
15 We agree with the planning staff. They say we
16 do not affect driveways, streets. That has not