1 CITY OF
2 LAND USE AND ZONING
3 COMMITTEE
4
5
6 Proceedings held on Tuesday, November 6,
7 2007, commencing at 5:45 p.m., City Hall, Council
8 Chambers, 1st Floor,
9 Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State
10 of
11
12 PRESENT:
13 MICHAEL CORRIGAN, Chair.
CLAY YARBOROUGH, Vice Chair..
14 MIA JONES, Committee Member.
E. DENISE LEE, Committee Member.
15 ART SHAD, Committee Member.
16
ALSO PRESENT:
17
RAY HOLT, City Council Member.
18 JOHNNY GAFFNEY, City Council Member.
JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.
19 SEAN KELLY, Planning and Development Dept.
FOLKS HUXFORD, Planning and Development Dept.
20 KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.
TRACEY ARPEN, Office of General Counsel.
21 JASON TEAL, Office of General Counsel.
22 DYLAN REINGOLD, Office of General Counsel.
JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.
23 MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.
24 - - -
25
Diane M.
Tropia,
2
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 November 6, 2007 5:45 p.m.
3 - - -
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, thank
5 you very much for your patience as we converted
6 from one setup to another setup.
7 We will now reconvene the Land Use and
8 Zoning Committee meeting.
9 We have two items that we're going to take
10 up first because of people -- council members
11 that have to leave for other functions or other
12 appointments. The first one we'll take up
13 tonight is on page 8 of your agenda, 2007-1007.
14 I will tell you, as we get ready to start,
15 a couple of things. One, as I mentioned
16 earlier, if you're here to speak on a particular
17 bill, please fill out a blue speaker's card and
18 we'll call you up when that bill is -- we arrive
19 on that bill on our agenda. You will have three
20 minutes to speak.
21 The beginning of your speaking comments
22 needs to be your name and address for the
23 record. We are taking down all your information
24 tonight. Diane is dictating everything we do,
25 so I ask you to please speak slowly and
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 concisely when you speak so she can make sure
2 your information is put on the record.
3 I also will tell you that, if you look
4 on -- beginning on page 14 of your agenda, there
5 is a series of land use amendments. Originally,
6 those were going to be heard tonight, but all
7 the items on page 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, and 20
8 will all be opened and continued, meaning that
9 those public hearings will be opened tonight,
10 you're welcome to speak, but there will be no
11 action on those items on the agenda tonight.
12 So I would tell you that you're welcome to
13 speak if you'd like, but your comments may be
14 more effective on the meeting on November 20th
15 when those bills will more likely -- action on
16 those bills will be taken at that time.
17 As a matter of fact, with the exception of
18 an item on page -- top of page 23, 2007-1088,
19 all the items from page 14 to the end of the
20 agenda, there will be no final action taken by
21 this committee tonight. So if you're here on
22 one of those items, you can stay if you'd like,
23 or you can leave, knowing that those items, with
24 the exception of the one item I mentioned, will
25 not have final action tonight by this committee.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 All right. I've kind of set the table. We
2 are now ready to go to item number 27 on
3 page 8.
4 We have a public hearing. I will open that
5 public hearing.
6 I will begin by disclosing some
7 discussion -- a discussion I had with Mr. Paul
8 Harden this afternoon in my office, and the
9 discussion was an overview of this particular
10 project.
11 The one housekeeping order I forgot to
12 mention is Councilmember Ray Holt is -- has
13 joined us tonight as a member of the Land Use
14 and Zoning Committee.
15 We welcome you and glad you're here.
16 Councilmember Shad.
17 MR. SHAD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
18 I'd like to declare that I had
19 conversations with Mr. Harden. I had an
20 appointment at 11:30 today at the City Council
21 office, which we discussed the legislation in
22 front of us.
23 Thank you.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilmember Yarborough.
25 MR. YARBOROUGH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 We're on -1007, correct? Is that the bill
2 we're on?
3 MS. JONES: Yes.
4 MR. YARBOROUGH: 2007-1007, I, too, had
5 ex-parte, Mr. Chairman. On October 23rd at
6 3:30, I had a telephone conversation with
7 Mr. Blackstone, who is a neighboring property.
8 We talked about there not being signs indicating
9 a rezoning, and we also talked about
10 notification to the nearby property owners.
11 And then a second ex-parte with Mr. Jordan
12 Senter (phonetic) on October 29, 2007, on the
13 telephone to talk about the proposed development
14 of the property.
15 Thank you.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
17 Councilmember Holt.
18 MR. HOLT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
19 I also had ex-parte with Mr. Harden today
20 and also with several residents, Mr. Randy Wyse
21 and Mr. Jordan Senter.
22 Thank you.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
24 Councilwoman Jones.
25 MS. JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 I also had ex-parte communication with
2 Mr. Harden, and I don't have my date up here,
3 but it was to talk about various aspects of this
4 bill.
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I see no other
6 ex-parte declarations.
7 Councilmember Lee.
8 MS. LEE: I also had ex-parte
9 communications.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We are finished with
11 that.
12 Representing the applicant is Mr. Harden.
13 (Mr. Harden approaches the podium.)
14 MR. HARDEN: Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace
15 Boulevard.
16 Mr. Chairman, before we start, before I
17 make my presentation for you, there are some
18 housekeeping matters that Councilman Holt and I
19 have kind of agreed on before we debate, some
20 substantive issues that -- there are some people
21 here interested in that may save some time.
22 There are two proposed amendments to the
23 legal description. One of them takes out a
24 portion of Crystal Sands Road, and the other
25 takes out 29 acres that adjoins the Tredinick
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Trust. And if we could amend the legal
2 description to take those out, I think the
3 only -- I told the adjoining neighbors I would
4 ask to do that to begin with, and I think
5 Councilman Holt has no objection to that.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: Let me find -- on
7 housekeeping --
8 Ms. Eller, can we amend while we're in the
9 public hearing? What do we need to do?
10 MS. ELLER: Yes.
11 The committee can go ahead and entertain a
12 motion to amend the legal description. And
13 then, when you ultimately consider the other
14 amendments, which I'm assuming you may, based
15 upon the recommendation from PC and the Planning
16 Department, we can roll everything that
17 ultimately gets adopted by the committee into
18 one. That's permissible, if you want to
19 entertain that.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Councilmember
21 Holt.
22 MR. HOLT: Well, then I would make that
23 motion to amend the legal description.
24 It would be a really bad precedent to set
25 for us, to have that Crystal Sands Drive as a
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 part of this. I am in full agreement with
2 Mr. Harden that we should amend that.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I have a motion.
4 Do I have a second?
5 MR. SHAD: Is Mr. Holt on LUZ? He was
6 appointed?
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes.
8 I'd just say, do we need to move the bill
9 before you move the amendment? That's of
10 kind --
11 MR. SHAD: Mr. Holt is not --
12 THE CHAIRMAN: He's on the committee today.
13 MR. SHAD: Okay.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Councilmember Holt is a
15 member of the committee today, so he can move
16 it.
17 Okay. We have a motion and a second on the
18 amendment.
19 Any discussion on the amendment?
20 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, all in favor of
22 the amendment signal by saying aye.
23 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Aye.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: All opposed.
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment carries.
2 Okay. We have now been amended on the two
3 things that Mr. Harden and Mr. Holt discussed.
4 MR. HARDEN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
5 Again, Paul Harden, 1301 Riverplace
6 Boulevard.
7 You have on the visual there -- and I guess
8 you can see on your screens a location map. The
9 site in question is the blue colored property.
10 In red is the Tredinick Trust, which basically
11 surrounds the property.
12 But more importantly, you can see in that
13 vicinity all of the projects that surround the
14 area. As you can see, this area has been
15 substantially developed over the last five or
16 six years. There are still some undeveloped
17 properties out there, but most of the area has
18 begun to be developed except the Tredinick
19 Trust, which I suspect will be the subject of a
20 DRI in the very near future.
21 Would you put the next map up, please.
22 The Planning Department has prepared a map
23 indicating the PUDs that have been done in the
24 last five or six years, and you can see there
25 are five of them on there. Those PUDs all
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 include lots of 50s, 60s, and then one 65 in the
2 area. And I say that because that's consistent
3 with the requests that we have made in this
4 particular case.
5 Initially, my client came to me with a
6 project that included some multifamily
7 apartments, townhomes in the area. The
8 townhomes and multifamily were not consistent
9 with what Councilman Holt had indicated was his
10 vision, and so I asked them to prepare just a
11 single-family project.
12 Now, for input from the Planning Department
13 and consistent with Councilman Holt's earlier
14 statements, we had proposed a site plan which
15 was filed with the Planning Department. That
16 initial site plan contains a mix of 50- and
17 60-foot lots, again, consistent with the site
18 plans that you have in the general vicinity.
19 We met with the Northside CPAC zoning
20 committee, and they recommended unanimously
21 approval of this PUD, asking that we lower the
22 number of 50-foot lots and raise the number of
23 60-foot lots, which we did do.
24 Subsequently, the entire CPAC considered
25 this matter and unanimously approved it, again,
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 requesting a different split of the 50s and
2 60s. The plan included at that time more 50s
3 and 60s. Now it's the opposite. And we've
4 complied with the CPAC request.
5 The Planning Department, nonetheless,
6 issued a report recommending approval of our
7 earlier plan with the 50s and 60-foot lots. The
8 Planning Commission unanimously approved this
9 proposal with the initial plan inconsistent with
10 the Planning Department report.
11 This plan calls for two units per acre. It
12 is about 4- -- it's slightly over 400 acres and
13 it's capped at 800 units. The plan calls for
14 the construction of an approximately $30 million
15 road and a $4.5 million fair share assessment.
16 Those infrastructures require a density at
17 the --
18 Are you waving to me, Ms. Lee?
19 MS. LEE: (Inaudible.)
20 MR. HARDEN: -- at the approximately two
21 units per acre.
22 I was informed by Councilman Clark -- I
23 mean, excuse me -- Councilman Holt, who's
24 playing Councilman Webb today, recently that his
25 proposal would be 80-foot lots in this area.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 In all due respect, it's not a reasonable
2 development prospect, considering the market in
3 the area, considering what else has been
4 developed in the area.
5 I offered to Councilman Holt today to
6 change the plan to put all 60-foot lots in the
7 proposal. We, again, have had support on our
8 earlier proposal, 50-foot lots from the Planning
9 Department, the Planning Commission, unanimously
10 the CPAC and unanimously the CPAC zoning
11 committee.
12 I've tried to work, as we have, over the
13 last few days to try to come to a compromise.
14 Councilman Holt feels strongly, apparently,
15 about the 80-foot lots. And, again, in all due
16 respect, that is inconsistent with the
17 development in the area.
18 I know the time is up.
19 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, your time is up.
20 MR. HARDEN: I've tried to talk fast, but
21 I'll be happy to answer any questions as they
22 come up, Mr. Chairman.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
24 Any questions for Mr. Harden?
25 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: (No response.)
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing none, our next
2 speaker is Randy -- is it Wyse?
3 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Good evening.
5 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you.
6 Randy Wyse, 1450 Crystal Sands Drive,
7 Jacksonville, Florida 32218.
8 Really, we just -- I'm speaking for our --
9 basically our whole neighborhood on Crystal
10 Sands Drive. I just really want to go on the
11 record stating that we really didn't want to
12 see -- and some of the maps that you may have,
13 we didn't want to see Crystal Sands Drive used
14 as ingress and egress out of that area.
15 Mr. Harden has met with us and has said he
16 would take that off that, but there's also some
17 easement issues that Mr. Harden has, and I
18 really just want to go on the record that we
19 don't want to see that easement used for any
20 ingress and egress. So, again, just basically
21 go on the record stating that fact.
22 And also, again, we definitely agree with
23 Councilman Holt that we feel like -- if any of
24 you all are able to come to that area, it is a
25 very rural area and there's large lots. Our
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 whole neighborhood is two-acres-plus on every
2 house or every house is on two acres plus.
3 So we feel like that the 60 foot is --
4 probably in our area would not be in line with
5 the residences that are there. So, again, just
6 kind of go on record that we agree with Mr. Holt
7 on the lot size.
8 Thank you very much.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
10 I have no further speakers on 2007-1007.
11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Indicating).
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Come on up.
13 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Give your name and address
15 for the record. We'll get the card from you.
16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. My name is Danny
17 Ferreira. I live at 14838 Edwards Creek Road in
18 Jacksonville, 32226.
19 Basically, I wasn't prepared to speak on
20 this particular development, knowing that the
21 CPAC had --
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Could you pull that
23 microphone down towards you a little bit?
24 MR. FERREIRA: -- had prior information on
25 this development, and I know that they did take
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 concern on the lot sizes.
2 I guess my focus on this issue now is
3 understanding that we have a strategy and a
4 master plan commission for the community out
5 there in North Jacksonville. This was -- in
6 fact, was to create a residential area which
7 would attract the executive homes, the residents
8 that we were losing to Nassau County.
9 In other words, we put this time and effort
10 in planning the North Jacksonville planned
11 community to be an upscale -- basically
12 last-chance effort to get it right, not to
13 duplicate other areas of mistakes around this
14 county.
15 We were to develop communities around
16 village retail centers. High schools were to be
17 reserved as residential single-family areas
18 where you didn't get the cluster of young people
19 living in apartments and affecting the social
20 behavior around the high schools.
21 We were going to create something better
22 than that that's in Nassau County by this
23 strategic plan that I know a lot of effort and a
24 lot of work, a lot of good-faith people with the
25 City have put time into planning that.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 Now, I believe this project takes away from
2 that idea, so I'm simply saying that we're
3 trying to create something of value so people
4 will stay in this city and not go to Nassau
5 County. And I think we're making a mistake by
6 reducing it, lowering our standards to accept
7 small lots sizes in that area especially.
8 Thank you all.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
10 Next speaker is Bobby Taylor.
11 (Audience member approaches the podium.)
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: This is on -1007?
13 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, it is.
14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. I'm a member of
15 CPAC and I was opposed to this, and I oppose it
16 now. I just wanted to come here and voice my
17 opposition. I don't think the lot sizes are
18 concurrent with the vision for that
19 neighborhood, and I'll speak in opposition to
20 it.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
22 Clarification. Mr. Taylor, you said you
23 were opposed to it. Does the CPAC oppose it or
24 the CPAC supported it?
25 MR. TAYLOR: I was in the minority.
Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203
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1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.
2 I think Ms. Lee had a question for one of
3 our speakers.
4 Was it Randy Wyse?
5 MR. TAYLOR: I'm sorry. My address is 9441
6 Heckscher Drive.
7 MS. LEE: I think he might have asked
8 the -- in Mr. Harden's comments, he mentioned
9 that the CPAC -- all the folks, that they
10 unanimously supported this. And, obviously,
11 they are neighbors out there. And I wanted to
12 know, did -- were they -- did they have an
13 opportunity to go to that CPAC meeting when they
14 had the meeting?
15 MR. TAYLOR: I'm not aware. I just know I
16 was opposed to it.
17 MS. LEE: That's all I was --
18