1                    CITY OF JACKSONVILLE

 

       2      LAND USE AND ZONING and PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY

 

       3                  JOINT COMMITTEE MEETING

 

       4

 

       5

 

       6             Proceedings held on Tuesday, November 6,

 

       7   2007, commencing at 5:10 p.m., City Hall, Council

 

       8   Chambers, 1st Floor, Jacksonville, Florida, before

 

       9   Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State

 

      10   of Florida at Large.

 

      11

 

      12   LUZ MEMBERS PRESENT:

 

      13        MICHAEL CORRIGAN, Chair.

                CLAY YARBOROUGH, Vice Chair.

      14        RICHARD CLARK, Committee Member.

                MIA JONES, Committee Member.

      15        E. DENISE LEE, Committee Member.

                ART SHAD, Committee Member.

      16

 

      17

           PHS MEMBERS PRESENT:

      18

                KEVIN HYDE, Chair.

      19        MIA JONES, Vice Chair.

                JOHNNY GAFFNEY, Committee Member.

      20        RAY HOLT, Committee Member.

                STEPHEN JOOST, Committee Member.

      21        DON REDMAN, Committee Member.

                CLAY YARBOROUGH, Committee Member.

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           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           2

 

 

       1   ALSO PRESENT:

 

       2        BILL BISHOP, City Council Member.

                JOHN CROFTS, Deputy Director, Planning Dept.

       3        SEAN KELLY, Planning and Development Dept.

                KEN AVERY, Planning and Development Dept.

       4        FOLKS HUXFORD, Planning and Development Dept.

                SHANNON ELLER, Office of General Counsel.

       5        JESSICA STEPHENS, Legislative Assistant.

                MERRIANE LAHMEUR, Legislative Assistant.

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           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           3

 

 

       1                       I  N  D  E  X

 

       2

 

       3   ITEM/FILE NO.

           2007-984  RESO OF OPPOSITION TO EXTENSION OF ANY

       4             RUNWAY AT CRAIR AIRFIELD; DIRECTING

                     DISTRIBUTION OF RESO TO JACKSONVILLE

       5             AVIATION AUTHORITY AND DIRECTOR OF PLANNING

                     AND DEVELOPMENT.

       6             (COUNCILMEMBERS YARBOROUGH & BISHOP)

 

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           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           4

 

 

       1                   P R O C E E D I N G S

 

       2   November 6, 2007                        5:10 p.m.

 

       3                         -  -  -

 

       4             THE CHAIRMAN:  Good evening, ladies and

 

       5        gentlemen.

 

       6             Tonight we have a little something

 

       7        different.  We're actually going to begin

 

       8        tonight's meeting with a joint Land Use and

 

       9        Zoning and Public Health and Safety Committee

 

      10        meeting to consider one bill.  The bill number

 

      11        is 2007-984.  If you have an LUZ agenda, it's

 

      12        item number 24 on your agenda.

 

      13             Several people have already asked me if

 

      14        there's a public hearing tonight, and there is

 

      15        not a public hearing on this bill tonight.  That

 

      16        public hearing was heard on October 23rd before

 

      17        the entire City Council, so your input was

 

      18        received by all the council members.

 

      19             The bill tonight will be debated by both

 

      20        the Land Use and Zoning and the Public Health

 

      21        and Safety Committee members.

 

      22             I know we have members of the Airport

 

      23        Authority board of directors that may be joining

 

      24        us, and we welcome them.

 

      25             We also have members of the public, and I'm

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           5

 

 

       1        sure that my fellow council members -- and the

 

       2        planning staff is here, as well as experts in

 

       3        the audience, and if you want to ask one of them

 

       4        a question during the debate of the bill, please

 

       5        feel free to ask them up.

 

       6             Having said that, I will let you know on

 

       7        the Land Use and Zoning Committee, the following

 

       8        members are present:  I am chairman, Michael

 

       9        Corrigan.  My vice chair, Clay Yarborough, is

 

      10        here.  Councilmember Richard Clark is here.

 

      11        Councilwoman Denise Lee is here.  Councilmember

 

      12        Art Shad is here.

 

      13             Councilmember Jack Webb has been excused,

 

      14        and I anticipate Councilwoman Mia Jones joining

 

      15        us in a minute.

 

      16             The chairman of the Public Health and

 

      17        Safety Committee is Councilmember Kevin Hyde,

 

      18        and I will now turn the floor to him for him to

 

      19        introduce his committee.

 

      20             MR. HYDE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 

      21             Mr. Redman; Mr. Holt; myself, Kevin Hyde;

 

      22        and Mr. Yarborough are here from our committee.

 

      23        Ms. Jones and Dr. Gaffney were upstairs and I

 

      24        think are on their way down as well, but we do

 

      25        have a quorum now.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           6

 

 

       1             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

       2             Now that we have the formalities out of the

 

       3        way, we need to get in the proper posture to be

 

       4        able to consider this bill, so I would entertain

 

       5        a motion on 2007-984.

 

       6             (Dr. Gaffney enters the proceedings.)

 

       7             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move 2007-984.

 

       8             THE CHAIRMAN:  We have a motion.

 

       9             Do I have a second on the bill?

 

      10             MR. SHAD:  Second.

 

      11             THE CHAIRMAN:  We have a motion and a

 

      12        second from the Land Use and Zoning Committee.

 

      13             Councilmember Hyde.

 

      14             (Mr. Bishop enters the proceedings.)

 

      15             MR. HYDE:  I'll entertain a motion on -984

 

      16        from the committee.

 

      17             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Move the bill.

 

      18             MR. REDMAN:  Second.

 

      19             MR. HYDE:  Motion and a second on -984.

 

      20             THE CHAIRMAN:  Okay.  We are on the bill.

 

      21             I have a queue for only Land Use and Zoning

 

      22        committee members, so if will you raise your

 

      23        hand, I will just do a handwritten queue as we

 

      24        move forward.  So if you would like to speak on

 

      25        this bill, raise your hand.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           7

 

 

       1             Councilmember Yarborough.

 

       2             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman

 

       3        and Mr. Chairman.  I appreciate the time to be

 

       4        here to talk about this.

 

       5             I guess to get started, I've got several

 

       6        documents here and I did have some questions

 

       7        to -- could we just ask who we have here from

 

       8        the Aviation Authority that may be willing to

 

       9        answer questions that we might have?

 

      10             Mr. Stewart, are you able to answer -- not

 

      11        just yet, but you -- or is Mr. Clark here

 

      12        tonight?

 

      13             MR. STEWART:  Mr. Clark is not here.

 

      14             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  So will you be able

 

      15        to answer questions if we have --

 

      16             MR. STEWART:  (Nods head.)

 

      17             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  I appreciate it.

 

      18        Thank you.

 

      19             Okay.  First, I just wanted to read into

 

      20        the record -- I mentioned this at our Rules

 

      21        Committee meeting yesterday morning,

 

      22        Mr. Chairman -- a letter that we -- a letter

 

      23        that was sent to Alberta Hipps and also Matt

 

      24        Carlucci in May of 2001, and it was written by

 

      25        Mr. Fiorentino, who was the --

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           8

 

 

       1             MR. BISHOP:  Excuse me, Mr. Chairman, real

 

       2        quick.  I'm sorry to interrupt real quick.

 

       3             You had asked for Mr. Clark to identify

 

       4        Airport Authority members that are here.  I

 

       5        wanted to recognize that John Falconetti is in

 

       6        the audience tonight.

 

       7             THE CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Councilman

 

       8        Bishop.

 

       9             And let the record reflect that

 

      10        Councilmember Bishop has joined us,

 

      11        Councilman Gaffney has joined us.  I think

 

      12        that's it.

 

      13             Okay.  Go ahead, Councilman Yarborough.

 

      14        Sorry.

 

      15             MR. YARBOROUGH:  That's all right.

 

      16             Okay.  I just wanted to read into the

 

      17        record, just as we get started here, a letter

 

      18        that Mr. Fiorentino had written as chairman of

 

      19        the board, May 29th, 2001, and this was four

 

      20        months after the Port Authority had done the

 

      21        resolution which said that they would

 

      22        discontinue all of their efforts to lengthen the

 

      23        runway at Craig Airfield, which was unanimously

 

      24        adopted by the Port Authority board at that

 

      25        time.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           9

 

 

       1             The letter says, "As board chairman, let me

 

       2        reiterate that there are no plans, either now or

 

       3        in the future, to extend the runway at Craig

 

       4        Airport.  In fact, at today's board meeting, we

 

       5        voted unanimously to return $469,500 to the

 

       6        Florida Department of Transportation for land

 

       7        acquisition at Craig Airport.  This money would

 

       8        have been used for future development of Craig

 

       9        Airport and additional land acquisition to be

 

      10        used as a buffer to protect the boundaries of

 

      11        the airport should there have been a runway

 

      12        expansion.

 

      13             "As to the notion that a new board would

 

      14        not be bound by the attached resolution, which I

 

      15        might add was unanimously adopted by the board,

 

      16        I believe that any review of the issue would

 

      17        result in the same conclusion by a new board.

 

      18        Personally, I hope both new boards will honor

 

      19        the past actions of the previous board."

 

      20             And I'll read the final paragraph before I

 

      21        comment on this.

 

      22             "Over the past year, the board has worked

 

      23        hard to improve communications and credibility

 

      24        with the City Council and the community.  We are

 

      25        sensitive to the concerns of the community.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           10

 

 

       1             "In the case of Craig Airport, we have

 

       2        listened to the community, and that is the

 

       3        reason we have abandoned efforts to expand the

 

       4        runway.  The board is dedicated to being good

 

       5        fiduciaries of the public trust and we intend to

 

       6        maintain that trust."

 

       7             So basically what this letter does -- and,

 

       8        again, it was drafted over the board chairman's

 

       9        signature -- is establish that the board, even

 

      10        though, knowing how the system works and even as

 

      11        a City Council, when new members come in and new

 

      12        councils continue on into the future, obviously

 

      13        legislation can be changed that was enacted, you

 

      14        know, prior to future councils coming.

 

      15             But this basically establishes, colleagues,

 

      16        that it was the intent then of the board at that

 

      17        time that they would also put something in place

 

      18        that would -- they said they would like it to be

 

      19        in perpetuity, but that was factored into their

 

      20        reasoning for opposing it at that time as well.

 

      21        And we'll get into some of the reasons of that

 

      22        in just a minute, but that was factored in, and

 

      23        I just thought that would be important to

 

      24        mention as we get into this debate.

 

      25             (Ms. Jones enters the proceedings.)

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           11

 

 

       1             MR. YARBOROUGH:  The other thing that's of

 

       2        paramount importance here -- or that's fairly

 

       3        important is the fact that it says at today's

 

       4        meeting we voted unanimously to return nearly a

 

       5        half a million dollars to FDOT for land

 

       6        acquisition at Craig Airport, and that money

 

       7        could have been used for future development

 

       8        should there have ever been a runway expansion.

 

       9             So not only was the word given by the Port

 

      10        Authority board at the time that they wouldn't

 

      11        expand the runway, money was also sent back to

 

      12        the Department of Transportation that then could

 

      13        have been used to provide more buffer space or

 

      14        more land acquisition, if they had needed that,

 

      15        if they had decided to move forward.

 

      16             Now, if that money was given back, a few

 

      17        questions, I guess, would be -- just for us to

 

      18        percolate on a little bit would be, how much

 

      19        would that be in today's dollars?  Are they

 

      20        going to try to get more land now if they expand

 

      21        the runway to use for that development to put

 

      22        around the boundaries of the airport to protect

 

      23        it?  Where will that money come from?  And just

 

      24        issues like that.

 

      25             And we don't have answers to those

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           12

 

 

       1        questions.  In fact, we haven't even heard

 

       2        anything about that.

 

       3             So I just wanted to mention that first, and

 

       4        then, Mr. Stewart, if you would come up to the

 

       5        microphone, I've got several questions I would

 

       6        like to ask you as we get into the issue a

 

       7        little bit.

 

       8             (Mr. Stewart approaches the podium.)

 

       9             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you for being here

 

      10        too, by the way.

 

      11             MR. STEWART:  Michael Stewart, 10218

 

      12        Shore View Drive North, Jacksonville, Florida

 

      13        32218.

 

      14             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you.

 

      15             THE CHAIRMAN:  And, Councilman Yarborough,

 

      16        before you start --

 

      17             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Yes, sir.

 

      18             THE CHAIRMAN:  -- let me, for the record,

 

      19        indicate that Councilmember Joost has joined us,

 

      20        and he's on the Public Health and Safety

 

      21        Committee, and Councilwoman Mia Jones has joined

 

      22        us, and she is on both Public Health and Safety

 

      23        and LUZ.

 

      24             Thank you.

 

      25             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           13

 

 

       1             Mr. Stewart, thank you, again, for being

 

       2        here.  Appreciate it.

 

       3             The master plan that Craig Field is

 

       4        operating on right now, is there a 2006 or a

 

       5        2007 plan or what plan are we operating on for

 

       6        what takes place at Craig Field right now?  If

 

       7        you could answer that question.

 

       8             MR. STEWART:  I'm sorry.  Would you repeat

 

       9        the question, please.

 

      10             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Is there a master plan for

 

      11        Craig Airport?

 

      12             MR. STEWART:  Correct.  It was approved, I

 

      13        think, in 2001.

 

      14             MR. YARBOROUGH:  In 2001.

 

      15             Was it before or after the resolution and

 

      16        action were done by the board to not extend the

 

      17        runway at Craig Field?

 

      18             MR. STEWART:  I couldn't give you the

 

      19        specific date of the approval of the master

 

      20        plan.

 

      21             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.

 

      22             MR. STEWART:  You probably have that there.

 

      23             MR. YARBOROUGH:  On the bottom, it says

 

      24        October 2001.

 

      25             MR. STEWART:  Okay.  Mr. Chairman -- or

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           14

 

 

       1        through Clay Yarborough, I know there's been

 

       2        some conversations with a board member, John

 

       3        Falconetti, with Councilman Bill Bishop, and I

 

       4        don't know if it would be appropriate at this

 

       5        time for Councilman Bishop to talk about that or

 

       6        if Mr. John Falconetti would come up.

 

       7             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Mr. Stewart, I believe I

 

       8        was asking you some questions, if I could

 

       9        continue with that, if that would --

 

      10             MR. STEWART:  Yes, that would be fine.

 

      11             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Thank you.  Okay.  Thank

 

      12        you for answering that.

 

      13             THE CHAIRMAN:  Councilman Yarborough, just

 

      14        to clarify.

 

      15             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Yes.

 

      16             THE CHAIRMAN:  If Mr. Stewart doesn't know

 

      17        the answers or Mr. Falconetti, then --

 

      18             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Sure.  That's fine.  Just

 

      19        so we can -- we can do that.  That's fine.

 

      20             Mr. Stewart, if the Aviation Authority were

 

      21        to lengthen the runway at Craig Field, would the

 

      22        Authority purchase any more land as part of

 

      23        that?  Would it need to acquire more land or

 

      24        purchase more --

 

      25             MR. STEWART:  No property would be needed

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           15

 

 

       1        for the purchase -- I mean, for extension of

 

       2        Runway 32, even inclusive of the runway

 

       3        protection zones associated with that runway

 

       4        extension.

 

       5             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  What is the primary

 

       6        reason for the Authority wanting to extend the

 

       7        runway at Craig Field?

 

       8             MR. STEWART:  The primary reason is safety.

 

       9             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Has that always been the

 

      10        reason that the Authority has wanted to increase

 

      11        the runway at Craig Field?

 

      12             MR. STEWART:  Yes.

 

      13             MR. YARBOROUGH:  It's always just been

 

      14        safety?

 

      15             MR. STEWART:  Not just safety, but it's --

 

      16        safety has been the primary reason.

 

      17             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Well, I guess in years

 

      18        past, what other issues have factored into

 

      19        wanting to extend the runway if it's not just

 

      20        safety?

 

      21             MR. STEWART:  In addition, to take care of

 

      22        the growth in general aviation that is coming to

 

      23        the airport.  The airport has grown and the

 

      24        infrastructure has to be improved to accept that

 

      25        growth.

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           16

 

 

       1             MR. YARBOROUGH:  If the runway were to be

 

       2        extended, would it allow for larger craft to

 

       3        come in at Craig?

 

       4             MR. STEWART:  Larger --

 

       5             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Larger airplanes.

 

       6             MR. STEWART:  Not any larger than can come

 

       7        in right now.

 

       8             MR. YARBOROUGH:  So they would not be

 

       9        larger than the current --

 

      10             MR. STEWART:  Well, the current craft are

 

      11        rated for 60,000-pound dual wheel, and that's

 

      12        the rating of the actual runway, and that rating

 

      13        will not change.  The design of the extension

 

      14        will be six inches of asphalt, the same as the

 

      15        existing runway is today.

 

      16             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  I have a -- thank

 

      17        you for that answer.

 

      18             Again, going back to 2000 just for a

 

      19        minute, members.  There was a letter sent by a

 

      20        lady, Ms. Plummer (phonetic), who lived in the

 

      21        community over there near the airport, to

 

      22        Mr. Gary Duncan, who, at the time, was the

 

      23        aviation manager at Craig Field, and one of the

 

      24        questions that she asked was noise related, but

 

      25        in answering her question about noise -- I'll

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           17

 

 

       1        read you the paragraph.  He did say that if the

 

       2        runway was extended, then larger craft would be

 

       3        able to come in.

 

       4             It says, "Aircraft departing Runway 14

 

       5        heading southeast will start their rollout at

 

       6        the same point they do today, with or without an

 

       7        extension, and will be near or at the same

 

       8        elevation they are today when they cross the

 

       9        airport boundary."

 

      10             And here's the sentence here, it says,

 

      11        "Factoring in larger aircraft, which will be

 

      12        able to use Craig in the future with a longer

 

      13        runway, the noise study indicates that the noise

 

      14        will remain the same as it is today near the

 

      15        southeastern point of the airport."

 

      16             And, again, that was the general aviation

 

      17        manager of the Authority at that time.  So,

 

      18        according to that letter, if the runway

 

      19        extension were to happen, then larger airplanes

 

      20        would be able to come in.

 

      21             MR. STEWART:  Well, I can't comment on the

 

      22        letter not having it, but I know what is being

 

      23        proposed as far as the runway extension includes

 

      24        a displacement of a thousand feet at each end,

 

      25        which will definitely impact the noise contours,

 

 

 

 

           Diane M. Tropia, P.O. Box 2375, Jacksonville, FL 32203


 

                                                           18

 

 

       1        and they would be different than the time frame

 

       2        of what you were looking at.

 

       3             MR. YARBOROUGH:  Okay.  Thank you,

 

       4        Mr. Stewart.

 

       5             Just for a few minutes, members, I'd like

 

       6        to -- from the 2006 statistical package from the

 

       7        City's Planning and Development Department --

 

       8        you know, we've heard from the Authority that a

 

       9        lot has changed over time b